Read Book Online : http://www.archive.org/stream/mysticismmagicin00garn#page/n9/mode/2up

Download pdf Book : http://ia311027.us.archive.org/1/items/mysticismmagicin00garn/mysticismmagicin00garn.pdf

I just love this pic! and the dance is so awe inspiring!

Amazing!

these r d whirling dervish, there is sum kind of ritual in turkey before which this kinda dance is performed where the dancers close their eyes and rotate n d most amazing thing is they don't collide while circling

This is rituals of the Rumi's followers (Whirling Dervishes) who are among the enduring as well as the most exquisite ceremonies of spirituality.The ritual whirling of the dervishes is an act of love and a drama of faith.Individual dervishes strive to achieve a state of trans.Chanting of poetry, rhythmic rotation, and incessant music create a synthesis which, according to the faithful, induces a feeling of soaring, of ecstasy, of mystical flight.

Sufism is Vedanta said in Islamic language, besides this use of the canvas of Islam, there is nothing common between Islam and Sufism. The only country that has contributed positively into Islam is India... Sufism is India's contribution to Islam. I have enjoyed some extraordinary & amazing experiences with 'derveshis' as well as Sufis, even the maintainers of the 'office' of 'Khizr', here in Mehrauli, in Delhi!

What surprised me was the mullah who wants to build a mosque at the ground zero in US is a Sufi. I thought Sufism was a very tolerant mystical, considerate branch of Islam. With all the protests from Americans not to insult by building a mosque at the site, this mullah is adamant. How can it be bring about peace between people is beyond me with such attitude!

"Sufism is India's contribution to ...Islam." No it is not. While the Indian religious tradition did add significantly to sufism noticeably through the Bhakti movement, sufism has had a long inning in Iran, Iraq and Turkey. If anything, Hafez can be reckoned to be the most famous of the lot. But there were many before him, including Rabia Basri who was very much Meera-like. I had blogged about her many moons back. http://quizfan.blogspot.com/2005/09/saintly-lady.html

Arvind: While that is a non-sequitur topic, I think you're coming more from the angle of "sufis are peace-loving". I don't think we need to go in into the World Trade Center controversy, but regarding the impression of sufis, there are many different views. Arun Shourie's research has indicated that sufis were no less interested in proselytizing than their more conservative counterparts. Anyway, as I said, a non-sequitur.

sufi- a soft islam...was a way to attract the hindus who did not obey the swords ...but who were moved by the thought...

at some point of time..islam had to show ..that ..they also have something which resembles bhkati...like hindus also incorporated buddha as the 9th avatar and removed buddhism from india..

Anup you are right on, the fact that Sufis are the mystical lot is a myth and they like all other missionaries into India had just one goal, conversion of the Kafirs or the idolators as they viewed Hindus.

it was a multiple stalking by islam.. by sword... by terror... by psychology.. by sufism... a multi pronged approach...

sufis dpoted few important hindu aspects ...the urs and sandal...the chadder...quwaalis...the dhaga to be put on hands...tavij...prasaad.. all these are forbidden in islam..

i would love to know about the partcipation of women in sufi tradition...if any..the senstivity to feminine aspect can only qualify sufism as a liberal offshoot of islam..

shri shyam malickji...how much do u know about VEDANTA .. just to compare it with sufism is a sweeping statement...do u know what is called VEDA and Vedanta ..and difference between veda and vedanta?

dear friends... just giving one example of a sufi woman saint will not do...

Anup: My example of Rabia Basri was used to illustrate the fact that folks like her, Hafez, Rumi and others did not get into mysticism through links with India. They did it on their own. After all, this post by RBSI is about Mysticism in Turkey and Shyam's comment was related to India's contribution while being a legitimate topic was off-topic in itself for this post. The sufis in India (incl current day Pakistan, Bangladesh) have quite obviously benefited and transformed by interactions with Hindus in general and the bhakti movement in particular. Also, note that there is a huge divide in those mystics with quite a majority of them coming in from various Shia sects and are therefore, quite different from Sunnis.

Anup: Again, even though we are off-topic, you wrote, "like hindus also incorporated buddha as the 9th avatar and removed buddhism from india.." Not quite as simple as that. Arun Shourie has quoted B. R. Ambedkar at length in an article in the Indian Express (circa early 1990s). I found it here: http://arunshourie.voiceofdharma.com/articles/scandal.htm

shri arunji...you seem to be a sufi scholar...tell me why all the important sufi saints were from out of india ..why they travelled long distances to come to india ..and make india there home...give some names of sufi saints who can be called indian...or hindustani...who were not transported and implanted in stretegic locations in india...

arunji....tell me one simple thing.. why buddha was included in dashavtara? why dr ambedker chose buddhism when he was offered unlimited sums of money by nizam of hydrabad...dr ambedker would not hve chosen budhhism for en masse conevrsion if buddhha was not part of hindu dashavtara...i would appreciate your views...

arunji...aap ka mantavya ka mahtva hai,,,,

Shyam Malick, Swirling Dervishes and Vedanta have nothing in common, there is mysticism in many of the major religions, which does not mean they are alike. Likewise, Sanatana Dharma (Hindu Dharma) philosophy tell us that all paths lead to god no matter how crooked (like the rivers to a ocean) and to spiritual happiness, unlike Sufism/Islam which says there's is only the true path to god and all others are false. If the swirling dervishes find solace and spirituality in their spinning and music then more power to them as we (Hindus) believe it will eventually lead to the same almighty.

I dont even know why I am taking the bait in an off-topic conversation, but re Indian born sufi saints, there are many. Bulleh Shah, Inayat Qadiri, Sultan Bahu, Makhdoom Bilawal, Nizamuddin Auliya et al. Quite a few of them were persecuted by Muslim rulers as dishonoring Islam. Makhdoom Bilawal, for example, was killed for that reason. Btw, a good source of the conflict between rulers/Sufism and traditional Islam is the work on Akbar in the Social Scientist at the Univ of Chicago. http://dsal.uchicago.edu/books/socialscientist/toc.html?issue=232-33

* I meant "for dishonoring Islam"

And these are the popular ones. I hail from Karnataka and in our state, both Hindus and Muslims adore Shishunala Sharif, a Kannada sufi saint and nary a Bhavageetha programme goes by without at least one of his songs being sung. A very popular commercial film was made on his life and it was a big hit. A modern rock group from Mysore, even sings his songs today! See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMpo1HKQf7I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIMRTWp0VV8&feature=related

@ Mr Arun Simha. Kindly put Islam's interaction with India on the time line..and see the the time of the advent of Sufism? It nearly coincides with the 'Bhakti movement' over here. I am ready for a point-to point discussion on this; with all the respect to your knowledge of the subject! Besides, there exists a vacuum about the reach of Hinduism beyond Afghanistan. Islam did not really have to reach Delhi's Nizamuddin to learn Sufism. The existence of well architectured ancient Hindu temple in Bakhu, Azerbaijan reveals more than what is written. @ Mr.Arvind Mallaya. None of the civilisations that the expanding Islam decimated had any such singing, swirling tradition that could be supposed to have been incorporated into Islam, like the whole process of Haj...which was an annual tribal tradition adapted into Islam in toto. We must recognise that India was the the last 'shore' that the raging tide of Islam reached...after here it only had to recede back. So, it washed into it, what ever it found scattered on that shore, in this case the tradition of singing, dancing into a trance. If India 'Rath' could inspire the decorations on the 'Tajias' in Shi'a Islam all the way back till Iran..why deny Sufism its parentage in India? Inter alia, I read about Ambedkar. It is worthwhile to know that Ambedkar refused to Convert to either Christianity and Islam as he did not find both 'homogeneous' to the land of India, refer..complete works of Ambedkar for more of his vies on the Christian evangelists, and Islamists, both.

@ RBS Books on Meera and Andaal ?

Have travelled to the heart of dervish culture.... in Konya where Jalaluddin Rumi practised Sufism.... Beautiful thoughts by Rumi... very secular... However the movement did encounter huge resistance from main stream Islam who had considered it a threat to their singular approach to divinity. Probably that's the cause for them to move away from the heartland and start proselytising the mysticism along afghanistan and our subcontinent. About its relationship to Vedanta.. the veiw is rather naive that there exists a connection with sufism. Few things in this world are as sophisticated as our Upanishads.. It is way, way more than mysticism, not always appreciated by the intellectually- not- so- developed humans.... The sanatan dharma is broad and all encompassing, without being prescriptive.... it allows infinite ways to reach the Ultimate .

for Sumedha hi... Fair mothers, my sweet ambrosia Of Srirangam With his lovely hair, his lovely mouth His lovely eyes And the lovely lotus from his belly button — My husband — Has my loose bangle Made me lose indeed! My Lord of Srirangam, Rich and righteous, Who owns this sea-swept earth entire And the sky Has made his possessions Now complete With the bangle which I wore On my hand!

its a poem by aandal

Sreerupaji...may i ask you...what is the meaning of VERY SECULAR...i think its secular or non secular ,,, but there is nothing like VERY SECULAR....and Rumi being very secular...in those days ..it was sword or islam...religion which belives in singular aaproch to divinity ,,,cant be secular..

only CHISTI's can have music in islam....

@ Mr Dave....the word VERY was used just to show a degree of how non religious his thoughts were on several issues... atleast that's how it seemed to me... and that too within an Islamic environment... just an opinoin....... Am not an authority on this subject....

Thanks to Arun Simha for putting up these exultant words of Rabia Basri on his blog : "O my Lord, if I worship you from fear of hell, burn me in hell. If I worship you from hope of Paradise, bar me from its gates. But if I worship you for yourself alone, grant me then the beauty of your Face." I have found this poem to be the ultimate ideal of devotion to one's God since my childhood and never knew who the author was. : )

Thank you very much Anup Dave. I have read translations of the Thirupavai and heard it sung in Tamil ( which i do not understand unfortunately), enjoyed it nevertheless with a translation by my side. But is this from the Nachiar Tirumozhi? Because I thought the Thirupavai revolved around the Margazhi?

sumedhaji....it was taken from a site called CHAIKHANA...YOU may find more poems there..look for old tamil works on univ of chicago site...thanks..

to all the persons here..i wish to tell you that if some one was hurt by my debates/discussions/comments...it was not aimed intentionally..but was more in the spirit of open and free thinking ..in looking at the not so known aspect of the subject..the quest is for the truth...

A good book to read poems/writing by Indian women is "Women Writing in India, 600 BC to the Present. Vol. 1,2, edited by Susie Tharu and K. Lalita. It was published by The Feminist Press, City Univ of New York, New York (1991). I had read it in 1992-3 or thereabouts. I don't know if the book is still in print. It had poems by ancient poets in various languages - Sanskrit, Pali, Marathi, Kannada etc. For example, this was written in Pali in 600 B.C. A Woman Well Set Free! How Free I Am A woman well set free! How free I am, How wonderfully free, from kitchen drudgery. Free from the harsh grip of hunger, And from empty cooking pots, Free too of that unscrupulous man, The weaver of sunshades. Calm now, and serene I am, All lust and hatred purged. To the shade of the spreading trees I go And contemplate my happiness. -- Sumangalamata (Translated by Uma Chakravarti and Kumkum Roy in the book mentioned above)

Sumedhaji...you may go through the works of A.K.Ramanujam

@ Arun .. hope to meet up someday, Inshallah... Meanwhile here is a link that you may enjoy... Hori kehlungi keh bismillah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsDe-sx5z8w&feature=related 'Women writing in India' is indeed a wonderful book... So free am I, so gloriously free, Free from three petty things- From mortar, from pestle and from twisted lord, Freed from rebirth and death I am, And all that has held me down Is hurled away. Mutta (translated by Uma Chakravarti and KumKum Roy)

Thank you, Nehal Excellent link! Same here!

Incidentally, Nehal, this is not new. Ustad Abdul Karim Khan, guru of Sawai Gandharva who is the guru of greats like Bhimsen Joshi has sung Rama Nee Samana in the Carnatic shaili (raga karaharipriya). This intermingling seemed to be quite common then...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp1-HgUVGNM&feature=related

And of course, here's Ustad Abdul Karim Khan's daughter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJwY4aMPrKY&feature=related